Comments on The Armchair Adventurer: Huldreheimen Gear Round Up:Hits Misses and Maybes

I definitely enjoyed it and of course you're q...

2011-06-09T23:18:23.470+02:00

I definitely enjoyed it and of course you're quite right, an eventful trip is all the more memorable plus figuring out where things could have been changed helps pass the time until the next trip.

Richard

Richard, Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. It was an in...

2011-06-04T23:19:47.054+02:00

Richard, Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. It was an interesting trip the memories of which get better with age:-)

Great write up Dave, that was one heck of a trip.

2011-05-24T00:31:49.985+02:00

Great write up Dave, that was one heck of a trip.

Jaakko, "then pulled new vacuum packed down ...

2011-05-17T21:33:31.003+02:00

Jaakko,

"then pulled new vacuum packed down bags from their pulkas as overbags for the rest of the trip... But that's HC"

Hardcore indeed! But...if I had the money? Multifunctional too. I guess they're easier to set fire to than damp birch.

I suppose that a breathable bivvy bag should also work in the cold then?

What I conveniently forgot to mention while trying to achieve a suiatble bias on the snow shoes/skis argument was that after his successfull passage Amundsen then skied 800km to wire the news and then 800km back to Gjoa. Skis seem to work pretty well in North America too.

I like the wider skis good flotation and better control are two good reasons for me to stick with them.

Fraser, Glad you liked it. Get yerself over to Breamar!

What a great post. A great resource for those thin...

2011-05-17T14:49:18.841+02:00

What a great post. A great resource for those thinking about trying ski-touring...

Thanks Dave!

Dave: Unfortunately we didn't see any bears. B...

2011-05-12T00:28:29.174+02:00

Dave: Unfortunately we didn't see any bears. But we saw some people skiing with wide randonnee skis and boots and they held up good speed, so that kind of gear seems to work too.

For me the Glittertinds work for skiing o ntracks. I get more grip from the MVG+ bases of my skis than from the Intelligrips so I use them if I want to ski faster on tracks. But on ice crust the Intelligrips might work better (the thick hais vs. fishscale pattern).

"I wonder if such a system can be effective under a wide range of conditions. I expect, if tollerable, that a VBL is the only sure fire way to keep transperation out of your bag."

With a reasonably heavy (in warmth) synthetic layer the system will work in a very wide range. But VBL is the best way to manage the moisture coming from the inside. And in hard core use (unsupported North Pole expeditions) people use both: VBL and synthetic bag. And at least the Finnish expedition in 2006 burnt their synthetic overbags around the halfway as they had gathered a lot of moisture (if I remember right it was 3kg of ice in 2kg sleepign bag) and then pulled new vacuum packed down bags from their pulkas as overbags for the rest of the trip... But that's HC.

"How well do breathable mebranes work at very low temps? Won't any transpiration that makes it through your insulation just condense on the inside of the goretex?"

At least Marmot sleeping bags with Membrane outers work in the cold (tested down to -33C, with or without synthetcic over bag) in a same manner than bags with Pertex shells. I'm not sure why, but they work.

BTW. I still think that the reason why snow shoes were developed and widely used in Northern America has something to do with the usually differenting snow conditions...

Jorgen, I don't remember any signs of poooling...

2011-05-10T22:20:06.456+02:00

Jorgen, I don't remember any signs of poooling water or that I came much into contact with teh snow. How well do breathable mebranes work at very low temps? Won't any transpiration that makes it through your insulation just condense on the inside of the goretex?

Ah yes, the Scandinavian ski gene. I may have it too (perhaps from the Dublin Vikings?)given that I much prefer the idea of skis even though I can't use them properly. There is plenty of historical evidence that Snowsheos make for effective back country travel though. John Rae, surveyed half of the Canadian Arctic on the things. Just to fan the flames of whatever is left of the British/Scandinavian artic exploration rivalry, Raes straight was instrumental in Amundsens navigation of the North West passage. Not bad for a guy who couldn't ski :-)

Korpijaakko, The polar bears left you alone then? ...

2011-05-10T21:54:06.067+02:00

Korpijaakko, The polar bears left you alone then? Thanks for taking the time to comment in such detail. Gives me some food for thought. I have a way of making things complicated it seems :-) I'm not too enthusiastic about the glittertinds, I know many say they are excellent skis but I think they are very similar to the Fischer E99's I've used in the past. I'm now sold on shorter wider skis. The boots are interesting, my experience with leather boots hasn't been great but I do like the look of those Alicos with removable inners. Mail ordering more boots at long distance is a scary prospect though, especially since you say they are eaters of feet! The skins I used were synthetics tailored to fit the XADV's. Probably also overkill therefore. I read your piece on the Intelligrip's. I might be being too optimistic but I think they might work better for me (not pulling a pulk up steep slopes but rather looking for an kick zone that works when fishscales don't). I realise the synthetic top quilt is supposed to help manage moisture from inside by moving the dew point outside of the down but I imagine the locations of the dew point is influenced by so many factors, (temperature, ventilation, body heat, humidity) that I wonder if such a system can be effective under a wide range of conditions. I expect, if tollerable, that a VBL is the only sure fire way to keep transperation out of your bag. Easy to say when I havn't treid a VBL of course.

The Garmonts don't come with thermofits but I understand that some retofit thromofit inners and cut them down to size. I'll look into it some more but I'll let you know if I plan to offload them.

Interesting to read about your gear, Dave. I find ...

2011-05-10T09:42:42.394+02:00

Interesting to read about your gear, Dave. I find it unlikely though, that damp socks alone would 'soak' the foot end of your sleeping bag. However, on the warmest night at Finnmarksvidda the underside of my Paramo smock lining the foot end of the sleeping bag was literally soaked. There is a photo here http://www.fjaderlatt.se/2011/04/finnmarksvidda-day-5-holidays.html. My guess is that you suffered from something similar. Moisture from the tent and pad melting and pooling around your feet. That is why I always pull my smock over my feet. The Paramo was obivously not ideal for this purpose, Goretex would have protected better.

You and several others have also brought up the reason I stay away from silk gloves; the wear quickly and soak water. Thinnest synthetics for me, please.

Of course, being Scandinavian I am sceptical towards snow shoes. Except in the situations around camp already mentioned by Tor M. In my experience, if the snow is so hard you won't get traction it is usally hard enough to walk on as well. A neat trick is to drill a couple of holes (5 mm) close to the tips of your skis. Useful if you need to make an emergency pulk from the skis, but also for tying a string through and dragging the skis behind you, which is usually more energy efficent than carrying them on your pack.

Very long but enjoyable post. So here's a long...

2011-05-09T15:29:09.108+02:00

Very long but enjoyable post. So here's a long comment to it! The writing style and good content makes even long posts like this a very nice read.

I like the idea of simple pyramid shelter in the winter. I have Go-Lite Shangri-La 3 so I'll have to give it a try next winter (the last couple of winters were spent getting a nice expedition routine with Hilleberg Keron 3 GT). I think that big pyramid shelter would work very nicely if partially buried in the snow and warmed with couple of white gas stoves. And in the morning it would be easy to just brush the frost off the walls. And the idea of pairing two down layers seems very good. I'll go to that direction myself next time (though with a heavyish vest and a light jacket).

I use my skis for mostly corss-country skiing so my comments might be wander a bit to side tracks but... It may be your writing style, but I think that you just makes things too complicated. ;) Skis, especially with skins, are almost as easy to use as you would just walk without lifting your feet. And the latter thing makes skis often less energy consuming than snow shoes. The icy snow is a pain in the ass but skins help. IMO your ski set up was a bit over kill for efficient cross-country travel.

I use MAdshuss VOSS + NNN BC Auto bindigns + leather boots + 38mm skins. This is very light setup but I still enjoy also the down hill sections. I can't do a tele turn but use a plowing style turns (especially with a heavy pulka trying to knock me over) but I've seen people doing telemark turns with that set up - and a heavy pulka following them... Something in the halfway might be the best comprimise: Madshus Glittertind style skis and a bit heavier boots maybe?

For the boot problem: If the Garmonts have heat moldable inner, I'd recommend finding a specialist to fit the inners. They can do miracles. One option might be leather boots with inner boots. Alico Doubles are well know to kill about 95% of feet trying them but something like Varg Polar with a felt inner (being soft and comfy) might do the trick, but you'd loose some turnability and control.

And if you decide to sell the Garmonts, I might be interested. ;)

Oh, and for me the Intelligrips didn't work: not enough fraction to haul a heavy pulka but when having a backpack, they might work. But I'd see them more as option for waxless base than on option for skins if you want to go up steep slopes. What kind of skins didi you use? 38mm (almost) full lenght mohair is good to almost anything sensible (let alone the people doing real off-piste skinning & down hill).

And in my opinion the synthetic top quilt/bag also solves most of the problems caused by moisture coming from inside AND the problmems caused by moisture from the outside. Though I haven't tested VBLs yet, I'd vote for adding a synthetic top (or getting an over kill sleeping bag so that slight collapsing wouldn't matter, but this is not very good option). A synthetic top bag should work for at least a week or two without a chance to dry your bag (and usually you get a nice sunny day or two per week).

Not unfair at all. I think you're right, skinn...

2011-05-08T22:14:03.513+02:00

Not unfair at all. I think you're right, skinning up and down hills isn't going to make me a better skier. Challenging myself, at the risk of falling over more would be a better approach but I tend to only ski agressively in bounds. That may be overcautious but I try to avoid situations that may cause me a heavy fall in the backcountry. Even getting vertical after a light fall costs such a lot of energy with a heavy pack that I'd sooner not be doing it every ten minutes. I'm happy to spend a week skiing lift served to enjoy skiing for skiings sake but the backcountry trips are something different to me, somehing other than skiing. I'll keep working on technique as I go but I'll also keep cheating to get out into the backcountry :-)

If you're not planning on skiing in other loca...

2011-05-07T23:11:56.349+02:00

If you're not planning on skiing in other locations it might be worth checking out if you can do storage with someone in Norway. That would help a lot with baggage allowance. I seem to recall reading about someone who does this.

If we organize it well in advance there is definitely an option to stage an attack on Rondane from our cabin. It's a 4 hours drive from Gardermoen airport and a 20 minute snow scooter drive from the parking to the cabin. (...or 40 minute pluss hump with skis. I usually go for the snow scooter back and forth to the cabin because we bring all kinds tasty stuff.)

From watching others it seems that the best way to improve on skis is falling a lot. I sometimes suspect skins of slowing down the speed of learning as you become _too_ stable. It's like learning to run using crutches? I hope that's not being unfair but it's a bit hard for me to judge as I did my share of falling before I established a reliable memory. :)

(Disclaimer: I'm considered the rubbish skier of my family and I'm not a big fan of maximizing distance.)

Tor, We're always torn between using public tr...

2011-05-07T21:35:17.689+02:00

Tor, We're always torn between using public transport or hiring a car to get us to and from Gardemoen. The former would allow a linear route if timetables permit. The latter usualy wins because, as you say, a car can be used a a gear dump and allows, within the limitations imposed by baggage allowance, some last minute choices. A hut in Rondane would be better though :-). I'm planning on improving on skis but I'm making slow progress. Sounds like our heads are at opposite ends of the size spectrum :-)

Maz, VR is certainly more breathable but I have never, and now certainly would never, use VR without carrying a shell. I REALY like the Humbolt. I got mine for 97 quid which helps some but even at full price it would be a good purchase. For 2x97 I would want the niggles ironed out though. Thanks for the heads up, there are indeed some available still. I can only see them in "Last chance to buy" perhaps I'm missing something?

Peter, Yes I thought I'd seen photos of you and XADV88s. I do like them. I wish they did a 75mm version of the X-adventure boots. I'd forgotten to put the link in but, although I think they're difficult to find, I may move to a Fischer 875 or similar.

The Shangrila was a group purchase. We also figured we'd get use out of itas a family tent in summer so we also got the nest. I think it will work for two adults and two kids but the nest for the 5 cuts off a corner so would be a squeeze for 4 large people.

Nice to see that you like the Shangri-la 5, since ...

2011-05-07T13:31:40.745+02:00

Nice to see that you like the Shangri-la 5, since I ordered one (with the nest) mainly for family use. With the nest I hope it is roomy for 1-2 adults and two children.

I also have a pair of the Salomon X-ADV 88. Great skis, with the drawback that they are too wide to fit in tracks. I have the corresponding X-Adventure 7 ski boot, which allows real skiing technique, much more so than the likes of Scarpa T4. It is slightly cold when the temperature goes much below -20°C, though.

Using damp socks in the sleeping bag should really be avoided. During the winter my feet are usually cold when entering the sleeping bag, and warm up after a while if using dry socks. I always protect the dry wool socks for sleeping well.

Great coverage of the trip!

I like the look of the Humboldt smock. It has a to...

2011-05-07T10:47:28.045+02:00

I like the look of the Humboldt smock. It has a touch of the Buffalo too! There seems to be a MkII (http://www.finisterreuk.com/technicalsurfapparel/mens/humboldt-09/10-p134-c26.html#) which is called a "mens waterproof jacket" (looks like a smock to me). At 600g and with an Observer Ethical award under its belt, it looks the business. I like the Paramo attitude it has and it seems damned good to me. On special offer at the moment £97, it is worth a look. Heavier than the Vapour-Rise, I also found the V-R to have limits when it comes to wind - not quite the same as you, but certainly it does not shrug off wind as well as a windshirt or shell layer. I like the breathability you describe as that is where I would have thought the V-R would have done better.

Wet bag. Any moisture will have an effect so perhaps it was the wet socks? Not sure VBL is the way to go but I still need to find some time to research them thoroughly - I know Andy Skurka loved them and did a fairly convincing review on his website of them but I remain unconvinced at the moment.

Great trip and thanks for the detailed reports. Good to see you back!

If possible it's a good idea to have somewhere...

2011-05-06T22:35:00.911+02:00

If possible it's a good idea to have somewhere to leave stuff behind at the trail head or somewhere close to it. It's nice to be able to be able to do last minute decisions on gear when you see the conditions.

Though I completely get what you're saying about snowshoes being quick enough, I think you might start to change your mind about that as soon as you start getting a bit better. Even on the flat a snowshoer has no chance keeping up with a competent skier. Snowshoes are excellent when you just need a little more surface area like when at the cabin we have to go out to get some water from the lake (no running water).

I love the silk liners from Decathlon! They're amazing value for money and just keeps your hands that little bit warmer when you need the dexterity and keeps a layer between your hands and cold stuff. (They do absolutely slurp water though...)

On hoods I have to say I quite like big hoods. My noggin is a bit over-sized so I generally find hoods a bit snug.

I suspect that VBLs might be more effective that top synthetics over time, however I'm damn sure that synthetics are going to be more comfortable. :) When I move back to Norway I'll do some testing. (In about a year.)